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Help explaining and/or choosing between two different solutions?

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Help explaining and/or choosing between two different solutions?
posted by Greg Whynott on March 4, 2015, 9:40 a.m.
for the capacity requirements you have stated, I'd be looking to purchase a Supermicro (or if you have the money go with a higher tier vendor and better support such as Dell/HP) box with a built in array. This way you could use ZFS for your storage requirements and enjoy all that a unix box brings, such as FTP.

The device you are looking at I personally would never even consider for a centric to the business use scenario, especially if support is via email only. walk away from that. looks nice for home use or on an editors desk maybe...

The Supermicro/Dell solutions may be more expensive but you have to sell them on the 'instant support', ask them how much money they would lose if you had to wait for a day to get to support and if they are ok with that. One or two incidents would likely cost way more than the difference between an enterprise solution and that which they are considering.

To reduce costs you likely do not need 2 CPUs. Start out with one but have the option to install a second one. If you choose to use ZFS, the more DRAM memory you can afford the better. Your users will love it as some of their requests will be served from memory as opposed to going to disk. If you add a cheap SSD or two, you can have quite a large read cache which will make people happy too. You could further reduce costs by going with a bonded 2,4 or 8 1 gigabit connections to your switch instead of a 10 gig connection, if your requirements allow for that.

-g







On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 9:16 AM, Ken Spickler <ken.spickler@gmail.com> wrote:
Synology is cheap, and the support level matches that. It's virtually all email-based and response times are often many hours long. If you have a failed drive, that must be dealt with by the drive vendor, not Synology (therefore avoid drives with a 1-year warranty). We use it for a sort-of tier 2-1/2 (files we're finished with, pending deletion within 30-60 days).

We do not have that exact model, but we do have a few 36-drive units with 10GbE and 4TB enterprise-grade WD drives. There's no way they will do 900MB/s. The fastest I've seen is less than 500MB/s. If your vendor is claiming 900MB/s, tell him to prove it with real-word work and not a graph on a PowerPoint.

Go with the Dell for something that would be so critical. Their support is much better, and in many cases they'll send a tech onsite. Have a look at the Dell Outlet website for refurbished equipment, too. It might save you even more money while still getting the same support.

Ken Spickler
Sent from iPhone. Srry for tpos.

On Mar 4, 2015, at 2:13 AM, Gustaf Larm <content@studiosysadmins.com> wrote:

Hi everyone!

I've been trying to get my current workplace to upgrade their storage and network, and now I got a Go for doing something. I'm trying to help them choose, but without much success.
We've got several offers, that they shut down because money-reasons, but somehow got one they like.

Recently they got an suggestion (from someone else) that's based on synology hardware. It's an DS2015xs (https://www.synology.com/en-us/products/DS2015xs#spec), offered to run with 8 WD RED at 4 TB with synologys hybrid raid 2 (raid 6 equivalent).
They loved it, since they can run an FTPserver on it, a DNSserver, synologys cloudstorage (like dropbox) and a few other mobile services.
All in all, it will cost about $3k plus installation. They love it because the cloudstorage stuff, and the pricepoint, and the guy said the performance should be around 900MB/s (read).

Another solution that they shut down before, is a Dell Poweredge R720 (2x Xeon E5-2630v2,128 GB RAM, 4 x 480 GB SSD, 2x146 15Krpm SAS drives, 2x 10gbe) and a powerVault MD1200 with 12x4TB Nearline SAS. Would run Windows storage spaces, with the SSD's as cache and a Raid 10. A total of $17k with installation and support. Would go down in cost since I see no need too have that much ram or even two cpu's, so I'm thinking it will end around $10-12k

Short about us (or them, I've put in my notice to quit and my last day is in 3 weeks), it's 11 employees, 3 administrative, 6 2d/3d-vfx artists, 1 editors and 1 colorist. Sometimes up to 6 freelancers doing vfx-work.
Working mostly with Maya, Adobe CC, Final Cut and Resolve. Pretty standard workflow, mostly DPX's, TIFs and ProRes. They also want to be able to edit directly on the storage. A small renderfarm with 10 nodes, soon-to-be 20, rendering 75% of the time. (75% windows, 25% osx)

I've been trying to explain the differences between th e DELL solution and Synology, why there's a price difference, about redundancy etc, but always get stuck on first step since the spec on paper looks the same,
24TB usable space, 10GBe connection, around 900MB/s from synology, 1200MB/s from the DELL (according to a real-world test our vendor did inhouse). My concerns are more about redundancy, rebuild-times, type of drives, the CPU of synology, support etc.

Do any of you have any experience with either solution, or can see a problem with either one? maybe something positive? Or what they should get? They do have a trust-issue with me, and whatever I think, they won't really listen to me, unless someone externally can confirm my thoughts.

I have no real experience with synology except their home-consumer stuff, which I like, but don't really know what I'm thinking about the DS2015xs. And I can't get the decision-makers to understand why there is a price-difference like that between this synology an d every other solution they've got. They are people who never invested in IT at all during their 7 running a company.

P.S. Our current solutions is an Yotta SAN, connected with Fiber to a PC running Nas4Free and shared out with 1 Gbit ethernet connection (the only upgrade I got to do, from the old crappy Hackintosh solutions they used).

Thanks in advance for any thoughts and or questions.

//Gustaf

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for the capacity requirements you have stated, I'd be looking to purchase a Supermicro (or if you have the money go with a higher tier vendor and better support such as Dell/HP) box with a built in array. This way you could use ZFS for your storage requirements and enjoy all that a unix box brings, such as FTP.

The device you are looking at I personally would never even consider for a centric to the business use scenario, especially if support is via email only. walk away from that. looks nice for home use or on an editors desk maybe...

The Supermicro/Dell solutions may be more expensive but you have to sell them on the 'instant support', ask them how much money they would lose if you had to wait for a day to get to support and if they are ok with that. One or two incidents would likely cost way more than the difference between an enterprise solution and that which they are considering.

To reduce costs you likely do not need 2 CPUs. Start out with one but have the option to install a second one. If you choose to use ZFS, the more DRAM memory you can afford the better. Your users will love it as some of their requests will be served from memory as opposed to going to disk. If you add a cheap SSD or two, you can have quite a large read cache which will make people happy too. You could further reduce costs by going with a bonded 2,4 or 8 1 gigabit connections to your switch instead of a 10 gig connection, if your requirements allow for that.

-g







On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 9:16 AM, Ken Spickler <ken.spickler@gmail.com> wrote:
Synology is cheap, and the support level matches that. It's virtually all email-based and response times are often many hours long. If you have a failed drive, that must be dealt with by the drive vendor, not Synology (therefore avoid drives with a 1-year warranty). We use it for a sort-of tier 2-1/2 (files we're finished with, pending deletion within 30-60 days).

We do not have that exact model, but we do have a few 36-drive units with 10GbE and 4TB enterprise-grade WD drives. There's no way they will do 900MB/s. The fastest I've seen is less than 500MB/s. If your vendor is claiming 900MB/s, tell him to prove it with real-word work and not a graph on a PowerPoint.

Go with the Dell for something that would be so critical. Their support is much better, and in many cases they'll send a tech onsite. Have a look at the Dell Outlet website for refurbished equipment, too. It might save you even more money while still getting the same support.

Ken Spickler
Sent from iPhone. Srry for tpos.

On Mar 4, 2015, at 2:13 AM, Gustaf Larm <content@studiosysadmins.com> wrote:

Hi everyone!

I've been trying to get my current workplace to upgrade their storage and network, and now I got a Go for doing something. I'm trying to help them choose, but without much success.
We've got several offers, that they shut down because money-reasons, but somehow got one they like.

Recently they got an suggestion (from someone else) that's based on synology hardware. It's an DS2015xs (https://www.synology.com/en-us/products/DS2015xs#spec), offered to run with 8 WD RED at 4 TB with synologys hybrid raid 2 (raid 6 equivalent).
They loved it, since they can run an FTPserver on it, a DNSserver, synologys cloudstorage (like dropbox) and a few other mobile services.
All in all, it will cost about $3k plus installation. They love it because the cloudstorage stuff, and the pricepoint, and the guy said the performance should be around 900MB/s (read).

Another solution that they shut down before, is a Dell Poweredge R720 (2x Xeon E5-2630v2,128 GB RAM, 4 x 480 GB SSD, 2x146 15Krpm SAS drives, 2x 10gbe) and a powerVault MD1200 with 12x4TB Nearline SAS. Would run Windows storage spaces, with the SSD's as cache and a Raid 10. A total of $17k with installation and support. Would go down in cost since I see no need too have that much ram or even two cpu's, so I'm thinking it will end around $10-12k

Short about us (or them, I've put in my notice to quit and my last day is in 3 weeks), it's 11 employees, 3 administrative, 6 2d/3d-vfx artists, 1 editors and 1 colorist. Sometimes up to 6 freelancers doing vfx-work.
Working mostly with Maya, Adobe CC, Final Cut and Resolve. Pretty standard workflow, mostly DPX's, TIFs and ProRes. They also want to be able to edit directly on the storage. A small renderfarm with 10 nodes, soon-to-be 20, rendering 75% of the time. (75% windows, 25% osx)

I've been trying to explain the differences between th e DELL solution and Synology, why there's a price difference, about redundancy etc, but always get stuck on first step since the spec on paper looks the same,
24TB usable space, 10GBe connection, around 900MB/s from synology, 1200MB/s from the DELL (according to a real-world test our vendor did inhouse). My concerns are more about redundancy, rebuild-times, type of drives, the CPU of synology, support etc.

Do any of you have any experience with either solution, or can see a problem with either one? maybe something positive? Or what they should get? They do have a trust-issue with me, and whatever I think, they won't really listen to me, unless someone externally can confirm my thoughts.

I have no real experience with synology except their home-consumer stuff, which I like, but don't really know what I'm thinking about the DS2015xs. And I can't get the decision-makers to understand why there is a price-difference like that between this synology an d every other solution they've got. They are people who never invested in IT at all during their 7 running a company.

P.S. Our current solutions is an Yotta SAN, connected with Fiber to a PC running Nas4Free and shared out with 1 Gbit ethernet connection (the only upgrade I got to do, from the old crappy Hackintosh solutions they used).

Thanks in advance for any thoughts and or questions.

//Gustaf

To unsubscribe from the list send a blank e-mail to mailto:studiosysadmins-discuss-request@studiosysadmins.com?subject=unsubscribe

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